The leader of the outlawed New Peoples Democratic Party and now a chieftain of the All Progressives Congress, Kawu Baraje, in this interview with SUCCESS NWOGU, explains why he seems relegated to the background in the APC, among other issues
How has it been with you in the All Progressives Congress, having lost all the pecks you used to enjoy as a chieftain of the Peoples Democratic Party, holding various positions such as national secretary, acting national chairman, and chairman of boards of corporations?
I would have loved for you to use another word instead of ‘lost.’ I would prefer you say ‘having sacrificed those privileges, which I had as a former national secretary and a former acting national chairman of the PDP.’
It is a voluntary thing. I did sacrifice. I sacrificed very high and juicy privileges because I believe I am in politics to fight for the people. I am in politics not to fight for myself.
I am in politics because I had gone out there in 2011 to canvass the votes of the electorate; to tell them that there were so many things we (PDP) could do for them if they would vote us into power, which they did. When those promises were not coming through, even with all my efforts, I believed that sacrificing those privileges was very little in order to maintain my integrity.
So, I do not feel any loss. There is no loss anywhere. I am still myself and I still believe I will continue to struggle until the lives of the masses of Nigerians are better than what they are today.
Would you regret leaving PDP, if President Goodluck Jonathan gets re-elected in 2015?
I will never regret it. After all, President Goodluck Jonathan is a Nigerian. The fact that I am no longer in the same party with him does not mean that I hate him. I do not hate him. That I do not agree with some of the ways he is governing Nigeria and that I, particularly, do not agree with not fulfilling the promises that we gave to the electorate when I was in the same party with him, does not mean that we are enemies. If he wins, well and good. But I can assure you that Nigerians want a change and APC is that change.
What are those promises that you made to Nigerians that you have yet to fulfill?
You are very much aware that our electricity is what it was, if not even worse. One of the promises that we made to the electorate was that we were going to return power or energy and the moment energy returns, many things will follow.
We also promised education. We told the electorate that if they gave us another opportunity as PDP, we would make sure education was free at all levels. We are all witnesses to the fact that parents are now paying for education through their noses.
We also promised that if the electorate gave us another chance as PDP, we were going to make sure corruption in Nigeria became a thing of the past. You and I know that Nigeria has never been worse, as far as corruption is concerned.
PDP is employing every technique possible to win Kwara State, your home state. What is the possibility of that happening?
It is normal for any political party to struggle to capture any state, particularly a state where the former acting national chairman of PDP comes from and a state where influential politicians, like Dr. Bukola Saraki, come from.
It is a normal thing for them to do. But people who are familiar with the terrain in Kwara know that capturing Kwara is not an easy task. This is a game that we have been on for almost fifty years. We have been with the people through thick and thin.
So, for anybody to say that, overnight, he will come and capture Kwara State, we can only wish such people luck. We are not struggling with anybody and we are not out there to fight with anybody.
Going by the fact that you were the chairman of the New PDP, many expected you to become a top leader in APC. Why does it seem that you have been relegated to the background?
Nigeria does not belong to only one person. Remember that APC is a conglomerate of so many parties. And the best of these parties are coming together to form a party. I have my respect in the party. I am being respected and I am being given my opportunity. But remember we are still building that party. It is a brand new party that is going to satisfy the yearnings of the people.
Secondly, speaking of being relegated to the background, I do not see myself as being relegated. The fact that the role I am playing in that party has not gone public or is in the domain of the media does not mean that I am being relegated to the background. We are building that party and I am one of the people building the APC. I am happy that my opinion and my ideas are being used by APC daily. That gives me satisfaction.
You remember even when I was in the PDP, in spite of the fact that I was at the top echelon there, I rarely spoke to the press. I operated very effectively from the background. You were all witnesses to that fact.
Our convention is ahead. You cannot now determine whether I am going to be somebody or nobody. It is too early to say I am being relegated. So far, I am highly satisfied with the role I am playing to build a brand new party; a party for the people, a party for the masses. That is APC.
Were you among those people that convinced former Vice-President Abubakar Atiku to join APC?
The former Vice-President is a man of his own. Nigerians know him. He is a politician of repute. We spoke to him and had meetings with him. But we left him to take his decision. Remember he has been part and parcel of politics in Nigeria. So he knows where the pendulum swings. People may be thinking that because of his ambition, that is why he came to APC; that is not true.
None of us, who were privileged to be at the PDP and saw what was happening at the top, would condone what was happening at the top if we actually had feelings for the masses.
Some of us are keeping quiet because we believe Nigeria should still remain one; if we begin to open our mouths too loud to speak, we believe it will cause havoc to Nigeria. We are interested in keeping Nigeria one and we want to move Nigeria forward. And with the present position, where the PDP has led Nigeria into now, if we are not careful, it will take us the next half a century to recapture where we were about nine years ago.
Critics of APC have said imposition of candidates will lead to the party’s collapse.
I would have just answered you, ‘wait and watch.’ But then, it is always good to expatiate. People are speculating and such speculations come from the PDP. People are also speculating because they have seen so many good heads in APC. A conglomerate of so many fine heads and fine politicians. They are thinking, ‘If Atiku can be there, Buhari will not agree. If Buhari is there, Rotimi Amaechi will not agree. Oh, Tinubu will not agree.’ All these people are national and even international figures.
Just like you asked why it seems I am being relegated, it means that because people of Nigeria have seen that we started a struggle for the masses, they believe that I should continuously be in public; they want to hear more of what I am doing. But I urge them to wait. We are planning and by the time we come up with their party, the party that they have a great passion for, the APC, they will be better off.
What really makes the APC manifesto different from those of other political parties?
It is not necessarily the manifesto. It is the idea of the operators. It is the people themselves in that party. Is there anything wrong in building a home? There is nothing wrong with it. If like-minds come together and say we are dreaming of building this kind of Nigeria, a Nigeria that is egalitarian, a Nigeria that belongs to us all, a Nigeria that will give jobs to the youth; a Nigeria that will be corruption-free, a Nigeria that will promise the masses and fulfil the masses, that is hope.
I believe people should believe in that hope. There is nothing wrong, absolutely nothing wrong in having a very glaring picture of being hopeful. Consequently, the fact that we are singing APC, means that we believe so much in our principles.
We have not even said enough about APC because APC consists of notable personalities that are respected all over the country, even internationally. They are people that have passion for integrity, accountability and probity.
Would you return to the PDP, if your political aspirations are not met after the 2015 elections?
I agree totally with you that every politician has aspiration. And once your aspiration is not met, you would want to go to another party or the other. What we are saying is that this is not about an individual. It is about the masses. It is about what we want for the masses. So, if I have an aspiration and I went to APC because I want, for instance, to become a chairman, to become a presidential or vice-presidential candidate of APC or whatever position, if it cannot be met, as long as APC still keeps its word and keeps to its principles and is being referred to or acts as a party that belongs to the masses, I will remain. In fact, I will prefer to be a floor member because that is a party that has integrity.
Looking for position is a different thing from serving the people. Most of us in the APC are there to serve the people. Remember that this is Kwara State, we are not used to finding ourselves in opposition. Maybe it was just once that we found ourselves in opposition during the life of our sage, the titan, late Dr. Olusola Saraki. Today, that is history repeating itself. That first time we went into opposition, it brought us good in Kwara. It brought us unity and harmony. In fact, that was the year Kwara started being referred to as a state of harmony. And we were able to make sure that some of the things that we lost were all recovered.
Our going into opposition now is because we are not satisfied with the treatment being given to the masses. So, we are fighting for the masses. We are not fighting for ourselves. If I have an aspiration and it does not work, I will rather become a floor member, where I can serve my people.
How do you see the ongoing national conference?
I made a comment and I keep repeating that comment. Fine, it is nice to dialogue. There is nothing as right as dialoguing, if that dialogue at the end of the day will solve national problems. But what I am saying is that we have enough materials on ground. We have about three to four reports of national dialogues. One was in 2005, the National Political Reform Conference, in which I was a member.
If I remember very well, there was one during the period of late Gen, Sani Abacha. Also there was a conference, when Obasanjo first came in the 1970s. Government comes and government goes; they find these reports there. None of them have thought it right to put all these reports together. It is Nigerians from all walks of life that were put together to form those reports at various times and I think any reasonable government should come together and put those reports together, pick from A, B, and C. They are the views of Nigerians. Why repeat another dialogue?
That is why many of us believe that the national conference is just a way of distracting us from hunger which is already taking over the country. It is a way of distracting us from hard life resulting from petrol scarcity, high school fees, lack of electricity, and lack of employment and insecurity. It appears to have been set up, so that our minds will go away from all these problems and then we begin to talk about conference.
You can see the issue of insecurity has been a cankerworm. It has become a cankerworm because we believe that calling Nigerians of all walks of life to even sit down to discuss about security alone is enough.
Do you agree with Gen. Muhammadu Buhari and Prof. Ben Nwabueze that the confab is a waste of time and resources?
I believe we have so many things that we can do with money than committing the resources to the dialogue. I believe if we spend about N7bn in putting our electricity right, it will go a long way. I believe if we use N7bn to create skill acquisition for our youths, it will employ several millions of Nigerians. I also believe it will go a long way if we take a small amount of money out of this N7bn to put all these reports I mentioned earlier on together and ask experts, or put up a think-tank to work on these former reports and for the very first time, make history and put all these reports together, the reports of Obasanjo, Abacha or whoever, and come out with solution. Now, what I read in the newspapers is that after all the ‘talk-talk’ and jamboree, the report will be subjected to a referendum. So what are you saying? What are they talking about? I believe we are putting our resources into a very wrong commitment.
Are you saying there is a better way the conference should have been organised?
That is my suggestion, if the government of the day insists there must be dialogue. Of course, there can be dialogue. Put a think-tank of 50 Nigerians or even less to work on those reports. They will come up with better and solid results. I was part of the conferences and we made recommendations. We also have other reports, including that of 2005, I believe the reports are solid for experts to study and make recommendations either in amending the constitution or living together more harmoniously or even solving insecurity. The recommendations are there or even ensuring that there is even distribution of our economic resources or revenue. The reports capture all these areas. It would have been better than spending N7bn . They (delegates) have not even sat down and they are asking for more time. You can see the unseriousness in that.
What is your reaction to the emergency of Adamu Mu’azu as Chairman of the PDP?
His emergence, as far as my knowledge of the constitution of PDP is concerned, to a certain extent, is okay. It is okay in the sense that Adamu Mu’azu has been part and parcel of PDP. In fact, he was a former governor. For a bona-fide member of the party to come out and become the chairman of the PDP is very good. As a former governor, he has enough experience.
I am not in PDP now, but I know a lot about PDP. I know that when an elected chairman, one way or the other, leaves his seat, an acting chairman should come on board until a proper election is done. I know that is what is in the PDP Constitution. But that was the PDP that I know, it is not the PDP of impunity which is happening now. That is their internal problem, I wish them luck.
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so you tell lies when you where in pdp thank GOD you are one of the people that promise me same think in 1979 and up till now no electricity no pipe water no better school system only private schools ...a dog give birth to a dog and can never give birth to a chicken all holy books said that liars are children of the wicked ,,,because the wicked can only produce what he is and can never have produce anything good ,,politics can not be mixed with religion any where in the world a bad egg is a bad egg can never be a good egg any where
ReplyDeleteThis man is using style to tell you if you vote for Apc bf you can enjoy devident of ddemocracy it wl take them upto 50yrs that mean there wl be no change we wl stil continue on thesame story
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